Most Active Speakers 2023

Sessionize proudly presents the list of the most active speakers in the year 2023!

  • 758 speakers
  • Auto-generated
Feline Parein

Feline Parein

Feline Parein is a business consultant with a big focus on all things Microsoft. She’s a certified Power Platform consultant and has hands-on experience with setting up enterprise-level applications and processes within the Power Platform.

Feline Parein is a business consultant with a big focus on all things Microsoft. She’s a certified Power Platform consultant and has hands-on experience with setting up enterprise-level applications and processes within the Power Platform. Show more

Dennes Torres

Dennes Torres

Dennes is a DBA and Data Platform MVP (2020-2023) living in Malta who loves Data Platform, including Azure Data Platform, Microsoft Fabric, SQL Server and recently got involved by Generative AI. In the past, he was married with software development, resulting in a total of more than 20 years of experience between Data Platform, cloud and software development. He moved to Malta after more than 10 years leading devSQL PASS Chapter in Rio de Janeiro and now is a member of the leadership team of MMDPUG PASS Chapter in Malta organizing meetings, events, and webcasts about Microsoft Data Platform. He is an MCT, MCSE in Data Platforms and BI, with more titles in software development. He can be found working for DTower Software and speaking in SQL Saturdays around Europe

Dennes is a DBA and Data Platform MVP (2020-2023) living in Malta who loves Data Platform, including Azure Data Platform, Microsoft Fabric, SQL Server and recently got involved by Generative AI. In the past, he was married with software development, ... Show more

Ashraf Ghonaim

Ashraf Ghonaim

Ashraf Ghonaim is a Strategic Management Consultant and his core areas of expertise are: Strategy Management, Performance Measurement, Process Improvement and Data Analytics.

Ashraf holds a Computer Engineering degree and an MBA degree in Strategic Management with special emphasis on IT-Business Strategic Alignment using Balanced Scorecard. He is also a certified Balanced Scorecard Professional, Lean Six Sigma Black Belt, Project Management Professional (PMP).

Ashraf is the leader of Toronto Fabric & Power BI User Group and he has been a Microsoft MVP in Data Platform (Fabric & Power BI) since 2018. He is also a Microsoft Certified Trainer MCT and he teaches Fabric and Power BI courses at the University of Calgary. Ashraf is a co-author of 2 books about Power BI and Microsoft AI and he is a frequent community events organizer and speakers around Fabric and Power BI.

Ashraf Ghonaim is a Strategic Management Consultant and his core areas of expertise are: Strategy Management, Performance Measurement, Process Improvement and Data Analytics. Ashraf holds a Computer Engineering degree and an MBA degree in Strategi... Show more

Ayushi Gupta

Ayushi Gupta

With my coding skills, I specialize in crafting diverse application solutions for Android mobile and TV platforms. My goal is to innovate and overcome any obstacles in our fast-paced, ever-evolving world.
Driven by a passion for problem-solving, I eagerly accept challenges and strive to deliver impactful solutions. Let's connect and collaborate to find innovative solutions together

With my coding skills, I specialize in crafting diverse application solutions for Android mobile and TV platforms. My goal is to innovate and overcome any obstacles in our fast-paced, ever-evolving world. Driven by a passion for problem-solving, I e... Show more

Will Velida

Will Velida

Will is a Senior Software Engineer at Microsoft, working in the Industry Solutions Engineering team.

Will has extensive experience in software development, building solutions in the financial, health and agricultural industries. Will has also previously been a Microsoft MVP for Kubernetes and Open Source before joining Microsoft.

Will regularly speaks at conferences, user groups and developer events around the world, such as Microsoft Ignite, NDC Conferences, and Techorama. When he is away from his keyboard, you'll find him hiking around the countryside.

Will is a Senior Software Engineer at Microsoft, working in the Industry Solutions Engineering team. Will has extensive experience in software development, building solutions in the financial, health and agricultural industries. Will has also pre... Show more

Dan Mallott

Dan Mallott

Dan Mallott is a Senior Principal at West Monroe based in Chicago, IL, USA. His passion is for distributed architecture, designing and building high performing service layers from the API down to the database.

Prior to returning to West Monroe, Dan spent two years at e-conomic in Copenhagen, Denmark, with the final 15 months as Head of Platform and Infrastructure. Dan was responsible for leading the Platform, SRE, and API teams in building a solid foundation for the e-conomic product. Previously, Dan was focused on leading the Platform Team in improving the cross-cutting concerns in the e-conomic application, including improving security, improving messaging performance, and managing the migration to .NET 6.0.

Before joining e-conomic, Dan was a Senior Principal for West Monroe, based in Chicago, IL, USA. While at West Monroe, Dan's projects included designing high performing architectures for a variety of clients, as well as developing APIs and UIs for healthcare, insurance, and financial services clients. Along the way, Dan worked with .NET Framework, .NET Core, Java/Spring Boot, React, and Angular. He also gained experience with a number of database technologies, including DataStax, Cassandra, Microsoft SQL Server, Oracle, and PostgreSQL. Prior to joining West Monroe, Dan worked for a number of companies, focusing on .NET and Microsoft SQL Server development, including experience as a DBA.

Past speaking engagements have included PASS Summit, NDC London, NDC Melbourne, NDC Sydney, KCDC, Code PaLOUsa, and numerous SQL Saturdays throughout the US. Dan enjoys speaking at both large and small conferences, and values the interactions he gets with attendees and other speakers.

In his spare time, he can be found writing his own software instead of using package solutions or on the ice as an ice hockey player and referee.

Dan Mallott is a Senior Principal at West Monroe based in Chicago, IL, USA. His passion is for distributed architecture, designing and building high performing service layers from the API down to the database. Prior to returning to West Monroe, Da... Show more

Dennie Declercq

Dennie Declercq

Dennie is Microsoft MVP Developer Technologies and has experience in accessibility with Microsoft technologies. In daily life Dennie is president and developer at DDSoft, a nonprofit that connects IT to People who are less tech-savvy. Dennie invented technical solutions and systems to help people with disabilities to participate in their daily life. Thanks to his autism he's the right man at the right spot to contribute as a volunteer in function of people with disabilities.

Dennie is Microsoft MVP Developer Technologies and has experience in accessibility with Microsoft technologies. In daily life Dennie is president and developer at DDSoft, a nonprofit that connects IT to People who are less tech-savvy. Dennie invented... Show more

Gien Verschatse

Gien Verschatse

Gien Verschatse is an experienced consultant and software engineer at Aardling. She specialises in domain modelling and software architecture. She has experience in many domains such as the biotech industry, where she specialised in DNA building. She's fluent in both object-oriented and functional programming, mostly in .NET. As a Domain-Driven Design practitioner, she always looks to bridge the gaps between experts, users, and engineers.

Gien is studying Computer Science at the OU in the Netherlands. As a side interest, she's researching the science of decision-making strategies, to help teams improve how they make technical and organisational decisions. She shares her knowledge by speaking at international conferences.

And when she is not doing all that, you'll find her on the sofa, reading a book and sipping coffee.

Gien Verschatse is an experienced consultant and software engineer at Aardling. She specialises in domain modelling and software architecture. She has experience in many domains such as the biotech industry, where she specialised in DNA building. She... Show more

Anupama Natarajan

Anupama Natarajan

Anu is a Data and AI Consultant with 25+ years of experience working in design and development of Data Warehouse, Business Intelligence, AI enabled applications and SaaS integrated solutions. Anu is a Microsoft Data Platform and AI MVP, Microsoft Certified Trainer and really passionate in sharing knowledge. Anu loves solving complex business problems with innovative solutions using technologies.

Anu do speak at Conferences (PASS Summit, SQL Saturdays, Data Platform Summit, Difinity) and organise local user group meetups.

Anu is a Data and AI Consultant with 25+ years of experience working in design and development of Data Warehouse, Business Intelligence, AI enabled applications and SaaS integrated solutions. Anu is a Microsoft Data Platform and AI MVP, Microsoft Cer... Show more

Marco Ippolito

Marco Ippolito

Marco is a Senior Security Engineer at HeroDevs.
Active contributor, releaser, and member of the Node.js Technical Steering Committee, he is a renowned international speaker and a former Microsoft MVP. Marco is actively involved in many projects within the Node.js ecosystem and also serves as a delegate in TC39.

Marco is a Senior Security Engineer at HeroDevs. Active contributor, releaser, and member of the Node.js Technical Steering Committee, he is a renowned international speaker and a former Microsoft MVP. Marco is actively involved in many projects wit... Show more

Nicky van Vroenhoven

Nicky van Vroenhoven

Nicky van Vroenhoven is a BI professional focused at the Microsoft stack and a Data Platform MVP. He mainly works with Power BI, Power Platform and T-SQL. Nicky started working with SQL Server and SSIS in 2005 in the DWH space, and later moved from Power Pivot to Power BI. After working 10 years in BI-consultancy jobs in several industries and companies, he worked for 5 years as a Power BI Administrator at a wealth management bank, and he is currently working as Unit Lead Fabric/Power BI at Powerdobs in The Netherlands.
Nicky has spoken at several User Groups and conferences including SQL Saturday Events, the Power BI World Tour, SQLBits and the Fabric Community Conference. In addition he enjoys tweeting and blogging about topics like Power BI and Power Platform at https://nickyvv.com.
In his spare time Nicky likes to go running, play chess or try to improve his Rubik's cube record. He is also a husband, father of 3 and a (former) ballroom dancer.

Nicky van Vroenhoven is a BI professional focused at the Microsoft stack and a Data Platform MVP. He mainly works with Power BI, Power Platform and T-SQL. Nicky started working with SQL Server and SSIS in 2005 in the DWH space, and later moved from P... Show more

Phil Nash

Phil Nash

Phil is a developer relations engineer for IBM and Google Developer Expert living in Melbourne, Australia. He loves working with JavaScript, TypeScript or Ruby to build web applications and tools to help developers. He once helped build a website that captured the world's favourite sandwich fillings. He has too many GitHub repositories.

Away from the keyboard, Phil listens to ska punk, hangs out with his miniature dachshund (also called Ruby), and is on a mission to discover the world's best beers.

Phil tweets at @philnash and you can find him elsewhere online at https://philna.sh.

Phil is a developer relations engineer for IBM and Google Developer Expert living in Melbourne, Australia. He loves working with JavaScript, TypeScript or Ruby to build web applications and tools to help developers. He once helped build a website tha... Show more

Linda Torrång

Linda Torrång

With a diverse background in journalism and retail, Linda brings both business insight and attention to storytelling to the table as a data warehouse developer. Coupled with her passion for learning new tech and trying new things.

With a diverse background in journalism and retail, Linda brings both business insight and attention to storytelling to the table as a data warehouse developer. Coupled with her passion for learning new tech and trying new things. Show more

Cory House

Cory House

Cory is an author, a 12 time Microsoft MVP, and international speaker. He is founder of reactjsconsulting, where he helps companies transition to React. He has trained over 10,000 software developers at conferences and businesses worldwide. Cory has authored over a dozen courses on JavaScript, React, C#, testing, and web development on Pluralsight and Dometrain. He shares software development tips daily on X as @housecor.

Cory is an author, a 12 time Microsoft MVP, and international speaker. He is founder of reactjsconsulting, where he helps companies transition to React. He has trained over 10,000 software developers at conferences and businesses worldwide. Cory has ... Show more

Douglas Starnes

Douglas Starnes

Douglas Starnes is a technology entrepreneur, content creator and five-time Microsoft Most Valuable Professional in Developer Technologies and the AI Platform in Memphis, TN. Douglas is the founder and director of the Memphis Azure User Group as well as the director of the Memphis Python User Group. He is also on the organizing committee of Scenic City Summit in Chattanooga, TN. A frequent conference and user group speaker, Douglas has delivered more than 80 featured presentations and workshops at more than 40 events over the past 10 years. He holds a Bachelor of Music degree with an emphasis on Music Composition from the University of Memphis.

Douglas Starnes is a technology entrepreneur, content creator and five-time Microsoft Most Valuable Professional in Developer Technologies and the AI Platform in Memphis, TN. Douglas is the founder and director of the Memphis Azure User Group as well... Show more

Mitchel Sellers

Mitchel Sellers

Mitchel Sellers is globally known as a 17-time Microsoft MVP, an ASPInsider, a DNN MVP, is an MCP (Microsoft .NET, ASP.NET and SQL Server), and CEO of IowaComputerGurus Inc. Sellers has a deep understanding of software development and when speaking focuses on proper architecture standards, performance, stability, security, and overall cost-effectiveness of delivered solutions. This message and his abilities resonate in the technical war room as well as the executive board room.

Mitchel is a prolific public speaker, presenting more than 400 sessions at user groups and conferences globally, such as DevUp, SDN, and Code PaLOUsa. Sellers has been the author of multiple books and a regular blogger on technology topics.

When Mitchel is not working in technology, you will find him flying his airplane, teaching others how to fly, or spending time with his family He is also actively involved in the Open Source Community working diligently to further the movement. Find out more about Sellers at his website http://www.mitchelsellers.com.

Mitchel Sellers is globally known as a 17-time Microsoft MVP, an ASPInsider, a DNN MVP, is an MCP (Microsoft .NET, ASP.NET and SQL Server), and CEO of IowaComputerGurus Inc. Sellers has a deep understanding of software development and when speaking f... Show more

Alyssa Nicoll

Alyssa Nicoll

Alyssa is an Senior Developer Advocate for Progress and a Google Developer Expert for Angular. She has spoken at over 50 conferences locally and internationally. She is the host of the Angular Air podcast and emcees ng-conf as well as Monorepo World. She enjoys gaming, scuba diving, and has a little one that fondly goes by "Mr. Milks".

Alyssa is an Senior Developer Advocate for Progress and a Google Developer Expert for Angular. She has spoken at over 50 conferences locally and internationally. She is the host of the Angular Air podcast and emcees ng-conf as well as Monorepo World.... Show more

Karl Groves

Karl Groves

With 20 years of experience in web development, usability, and accessibility, Karl Groves is widely regarded as a pragmatic solution-finder and thought leader in the accessibility industry. In his role as accessibility consultant at AFixt, Karl focuses on pragmatic and efficient ways of improving the accessibility of websites and software.

With 20 years of experience in web development, usability, and accessibility, Karl Groves is widely regarded as a pragmatic solution-finder and thought leader in the accessibility industry. In his role as accessibility consultant at AFixt, Karl focus... Show more

Asanka Abeysinghe

Asanka Abeysinghe

Asanka is a technology visionary who connects people and technology through digital transformation programs that create consumer-centric applications. As WSO2's CTO, he is responsible for advancing the company's corporate reference architecture and promoting its thought leadership vision. Collaborating with customers, partners, and industry analysts, he drives WSO2's technology mission. With over 20 years of experience in designing and implementing scalable distributed systems, SOA, microservice architectures, and business integration solutions, Asanka is a contributor to the Apache Software Foundation and a sought-after speaker at global events and tech meetups.

Asanka is a technology visionary who connects people and technology through digital transformation programs that create consumer-centric applications. As WSO2's CTO, he is responsible for advancing the company's corporate reference architecture and p... Show more

Ahmed Tikiwa

Ahmed Tikiwa

Ahmed Tikiwa is a Senior Software Engineer at Disney and a Google Developer Expert for Android with over 12 years of software engineering experience and possesses a strong passion for developing world-class applications that can help make a difference. He has experience in frontend and backend systems, where he has built enterprise solutions for major telecommunication companies. He is currently a Senior Software Engineer based in Utrecht, The Netherlands, and an official contributor to Google Developers Dev Library.

Ahmed Tikiwa is a Senior Software Engineer at Disney and a Google Developer Expert for Android with over 12 years of software engineering experience and possesses a strong passion for developing world-class applications that can help make a differenc... Show more

Tomasz Poszytek

Tomasz Poszytek

With a passion for enhancing organizational effectiveness through digitalization and process optimization, Tomasz brings extensive expertise as a seasoned Business Analyst. As a distinguished Microsoft Power Platform expert, recognized with the Microsoft Most Valuable Professional (MVP) title and multiple certifications, including Microsoft Certified Trainer (MCT), Tomasz possesses a robust analytical acumen. With proficiency in SharePoint, Nintex, Webcon, and other process implementation tools, Tomasz continuously updates his knowledge to deliver cutting-edge solutions and shares insights with both clients and technical communities.

Renowned for crafting user-friendly business processes and applications, Tomasz prioritizes simplicity and reliability, ensuring seamless adoption and comprehension. As a dedicated co-organizer of community events in Poland and an active blogger, Tomasz contributes actively to the technical community and serves as an esteemed international speaker.

With a passion for enhancing organizational effectiveness through digitalization and process optimization, Tomasz brings extensive expertise as a seasoned Business Analyst. As a distinguished Microsoft Power Platform expert, recognized with the Micro... Show more

Madzy Stikkelorum

Madzy Stikkelorum

Madzy is a Data Analytics Consultant at Quanto, organizer of the Power BI Summer School in the Netherlands and former Board Secretary of the Dutch Power BI User Group. With a master’s degree in Mathematics, analyzing data has always been one of her passions, but in the last few years this has extended to organizing events and sharing her knowledge with the community. She does this as a public speaker at conferences, and in blog posts that can be found at https://quanto.eu/blog/.

Madzy is a Data Analytics Consultant at Quanto, organizer of the Power BI Summer School in the Netherlands and former Board Secretary of the Dutch Power BI User Group. With a master’s degree in Mathematics, analyzing data has always been one of her p... Show more

Kervin Kueny

Kervin Kueny

Curieux de nature, j'accompagne les équipes dans la tempête du changement. Ce n'est pas toujours facile,
et pourtant, cela réserve toujours des moments fantastiques.
Ma devise de grand philosophe : Le cerveau est un organe tellement formidable, que de nos jours, presque tout le monde utilise le sien (Chris Deniaud)

Curieux de nature, j'accompagne les équipes dans la tempête du changement. Ce n'est pas toujours facile, et pourtant, cela réserve toujours des moments fantastiques. Ma devise de grand philosophe : Le cerveau est un organe tellement formidable, qu... Show more

Mikey Bronowski

Mikey Bronowski

What do I do? I select, I select stars!

Data enthusiast with a mathematics background. Working with SQL Server for over 15 years. Microsoft Data Platform MVP and Microsoft Certified Trainer with a couple of certificates sharing knowledge. Blogger at (bronowski.it).

Not long ago Poland Data Community member, now proud UK Data Platform active member and SotonDataCloud.org leader.

When not working or teaching, learns new things or attends various data/technical conferences and meetups.

Italian Calcio fan and traveller, amateur photographer catching anything that moves.

What do I do? I select, I select stars! Data enthusiast with a mathematics background. Working with SQL Server for over 15 years. Microsoft Data Platform MVP and Microsoft Certified Trainer with a couple of certificates sharing knowledge. Blogger ... Show more

Mateusz Wojtczak

Mateusz Wojtczak

Head of Mobile @ LeanCode with almost 10 years of experience in mobile development.
He has worked across Xamarin, React Native, and native platforms before fully committing to Flutter, now his sole focus for mobile apps at LeanCode.
He led the Flutter at Scale in the Credit Agricole Bank Polska project and helps teams deliver high-quality apps using Patrol by LeanCode for robust testing.
Also, the Co-founder of Flutter Warsaw, one of the largest Flutter meetups in Europe.

Head of Mobile @ LeanCode with almost 10 years of experience in mobile development. He has worked across Xamarin, React Native, and native platforms before fully committing to Flutter, now his sole focus for mobile apps at LeanCode. He led the Fl... Show more

Renuka Kelkar

Renuka Kelkar


Renuka Kelkar is a trailblazing figure in the tech industry, known for her multifaceted roles as Co-Founder of ARNA Genext Solutions, Google Developer Expert for Flutter and Dart, and Founder of the TechPowerGirls Community. With a passion for fostering diversity and inclusion, she serves as an organizer for GDG London and a WomenTechmaker ambassador. Renuka's impactful contributions were recognized with the prestigious Diversity and Inclusion Award from Google in 2023. Her dynamic speaking prowess has earned her the prestigious title of Most Active Speaker for the past two years consecutively on Sessionize, cementing her reputation as a driving force in the tech community.

Renuka Kelkar is a trailblazing figure in the tech industry, known for her multifaceted roles as Co-Founder of ARNA Genext Solutions, Google Developer Expert for Flutter and Dart, and Founder of the TechPowerGirls Community. With a passion for fost... Show more

Matthias Haeussler

Matthias Haeussler

Matthias Haeussler is VP Expert at CGI, university lecturer for distributed systems, awarded ambassador of Cloud Foundry and the organizer of the Stuttgart Cloud Foundry Meetup. He advises clients on Cloud strategies and supports implementations and migrations. Prior to that he was employed at IBM R&D Germany for more than 15 years. He has teaching experience from lectures at multiple universities in Stuttgart (DHBW, HSE, HfT). Besides that he is frequent speaker at various national and international conferences and meetups. (e.g. Spring One Platform, Open Source Summit, Cloud Foundry Summit, Spring IO, IBM InterConnect, WJAX).

Matthias Haeussler is VP Expert at CGI, university lecturer for distributed systems, awarded ambassador of Cloud Foundry and the organizer of the Stuttgart Cloud Foundry Meetup. He advises clients on Cloud strategies and supports implementations and ... Show more

Erland Sommarskog

Erland Sommarskog

Erland Sommarskog is an independent consultant based in Stockholm. He has worked with SQL Server since 1991. He was first awarded SQL Server MVP in 2001, and he has been re-awarded every year since. His focus is on systems development with the SQL Server Database Engine and his passion is to help people to write better SQL Server applications.

Erland Sommarskog is an independent consultant based in Stockholm. He has worked with SQL Server since 1991. He was first awarded SQL Server MVP in 2001, and he has been re-awarded every year since. His focus is on systems development with the SQL Se... Show more

Deepthi Goguri

Deepthi Goguri

Deepthi is a SQL Server Database Administrator with several years of experience in Administering SQL Servers. She is a Microsoft Data Platform MVP, Microsoft certified trainer and Microsoft certified professional with an Associate and Expert level Certification in Data Management and Analytics. Deepthi blogs for DBANuggets.com. Deepthi is a Co-Organizer for Microsoft Data and AI South Florida user group, Data TGIF, Cloud Data Driven User Group, Future Data Driven Summit, Databash Conference and Data Platform Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Virtual Group. She is also DEI Steering Committee member for PASS Data Community Summit. She is a Redgate Community Ambassador. Along with this, Deepthi loves arts and crafts. You can contact her on Twitter @dbanuggets.

Deepthi is a SQL Server Database Administrator with several years of experience in Administering SQL Servers. She is a Microsoft Data Platform MVP, Microsoft certified trainer and Microsoft certified professional with an Associate and Expert level Ce... Show more

David Rodriguez

David Rodriguez

I'm David Rodriguez, a Spanish Microsoft Regional Director and Azure Microsoft Most Valuable Professional, living in Tenerife, Canary Islands. On 2011, I co-founded Intelequia, a company focused on helping customers to adopt the cloud model, as well as the TenerifeDev user group.

Over the last years I worked at DNN Corp. (a.k.a. DotNetNuke) as the Cloud Team Lead engineer, building Evoq OnDemand and the new microservices architecture for DNN Platform based products and services. I have authored some open source modules for DNN and Azure available at GitHub, allowing to integrate Azure AD, Redis, Application Insights and many other services in the platform.

You can find me organizing the local user group once or twice per month, mainly talking about cloud related matters, and lately on building intelligent apps and bots with cognitive services, and of course, at the Global Azure Bootcamp in Madrid. I don't miss any Microsoft Inspire conference edition, so if you plan to go there we can meet and talk with a cup of coffee. BTW, if you come to the island, I will be happy to show you the best "guachinches" on Tenerife, only local people know the best ones.

I'm David Rodriguez, a Spanish Microsoft Regional Director and Azure Microsoft Most Valuable Professional, living in Tenerife, Canary Islands. On 2011, I co-founded Intelequia, a company focused on helping customers to adopt the cloud model, as well ... Show more

Please note that Sessionize is not responsible for the accuracy or validity of the data provided by speakers.

Most Active Speakers 2023

Every year, we put together a list of the most active speakers. This list features the top 3% of speakers who have participated in events using Sessionize during the 2023.

The 3% is calculated from the pool of all speakers that have at least one accepted session in year 2023. We don't include inactive speakers or speakers that had no accepted sessions during the year. There are around 25 thousand unique accepted speakers this year, the 3% is 771. Not all of them have their speaker profiles set as public, and we respect that, so the list doesn't show all of them.

The calculation is based on the number of accepted events, that's the main criteria, but to get more refined results we also look at things like multiple sessions per event, sharing a session with a co-speaker and how big the event is. Number of submissions and declined sessions don't affect the list.

Please note that the count of events and sessions in this list does not represent the number of events and sessions from the year 2023. Instead, it shows the number of events and sessions featured on the speaker's public speaker profile; these numbers have nothing to do with the award itself.