Most Active Speakers 2025

Sessionize proudly presents the list of the most active speakers in the year 2025!

  • 1125 speakers
  • Auto-generated
Andreas Kollegger

Andreas Kollegger

Andreas is a technological humanist. Starting at NASA, Andreas designed systems from scratch to support science missions. Then in Zambia, he built medical informatics systems to apply technology for social good. Now with Neo4j, he is democratizing graph databases to validate and extend our intuitions about how the world works. Everything is connected.

Andreas is a technological humanist. Starting at NASA, Andreas designed systems from scratch to support science missions. Then in Zambia, he built medical informatics systems to apply technology for social good. Now with Neo4j, he is democratizing gr... Show more

Divakar Kumar

Divakar Kumar

Divakar Kumar is a Microsoft MVP in AI and a Microsoft Certified Trainer (MCT), working as a Technical Architect at Flyerssoft. He actively shares his knowledge through blogs, talks, and training sessions, empowering developers to harness the potential of AI in real-world applications.

Divakar Kumar is a Microsoft MVP in AI and a Microsoft Certified Trainer (MCT), working as a Technical Architect at Flyerssoft. He actively shares his knowledge through blogs, talks, and training sessions, empowering developers to harness the potenti... Show more

Deepthi Goguri

Deepthi Goguri

Deepthi is a SQL Server Database Administrator with several years of experience in Administering SQL Servers. She is a Microsoft certified trainer and Microsoft certified professional with an Associate and Expert level Certification in Data Management and Analytics. Deepthi blogs for DBANuggets.com. Deepthi is a Co-Organizer for Microsoft Data and AI South Florida user group, Data TGIF, Cloud Data Driven User Group, Future Data Driven Summit, Databash Conference and Data Platform Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Virtual Group. She is also DEI Steering Committee member for PASS Data Community Summit. She is a Redgate Community Ambassador. Along with this, Deepthi loves arts and crafts. You can contact her on Twitter @dbanuggets.

Deepthi is a SQL Server Database Administrator with several years of experience in Administering SQL Servers. She is a Microsoft certified trainer and Microsoft certified professional with an Associate and Expert level Certification in Data Managemen... Show more

Carol Valencia

Carol Valencia

Carol is a Cloud Architect with a strong focus on security and observability, boasting over 7 years of experience in cloud-native technologies. She is an open-source contributor to Kubernetes, OpenTelemetry, Kubernetes Release, and CNCF Glossary. Carol is an active member of the community, serving as a TAG Lead in Operational Resilience, CNCF Ambassador, AWS Community Builder, and Cloud Native chapter organizer, together with KCD events in Brazil.

Carol is a Cloud Architect with a strong focus on security and observability, boasting over 7 years of experience in cloud-native technologies. She is an open-source contributor to Kubernetes, OpenTelemetry, Kubernetes Release, and CNCF Glossary. Car... Show more

Konstantinos Passadis

Konstantinos Passadis

Konstantinos is a passionate IT professional and Microsoft Certified Trainer with over two decades of experience in crafting and deploying comprehensive IT solutions. His expertise lies in Microsoft technologies, evident in his Microsoft Azure MVP status. As a Cloud Solutions Architect, he specializes in designing enterprise architectures for cloud environments, including Azure, M365, and hybrid/multi-cloud solutions. Konstantinos is a lifelong learner, continually expanding his knowledge and certifications across various vendors, primarily Microsoft. He is a dedicated community leader and advocate, spearheading knowledge-sharing initiatives through his Microsoft Tech Group, live sessions, and blog posts.

Konstantinos is a passionate IT professional and Microsoft Certified Trainer with over two decades of experience in crafting and deploying comprehensive IT solutions. His expertise lies in Microsoft technologies, evident in his Microsoft Azure MVP st... Show more

Doug Leal

Doug Leal

With more than two decades of experience, Doug is a technology and data leader at CGI who helps clients execute critical data-centric solutions, analytics and data engineering strategies, and AI initiatives. He has led high-impact transformations driven by modern cloud data platforms and AI-driven solutions that improve decision-making, streamline operations, and unlock new opportunities across multiple industries.

Doug partners with business and technology leaders to accelerate digital transformation and scale innovation. He serves on the Databricks Partner Product Advisory Board, representing CGI, and the Per Scholas Orlando Advisory Board. He also is recognized by Databricks as a Champion for CGI, bringing leading-edge insight directly into client strategies.

With more than two decades of experience, Doug is a technology and data leader at CGI who helps clients execute critical data-centric solutions, analytics and data engineering strategies, and AI initiatives. He has led high-impact transformations dri... Show more

Leslie Welch

Leslie Welch

Leslie Welch is the Principal Architect, Data & AI at SHI with over 18 years of experience in automation, data analysis and visualization, and strengthening organizations’ knowledge of data. Leslie is a Microsoft MVP and has worked end-to-end in the data arena from capture and ETL to database design/engineering to analysis and dashboard design to ML use cases with a focus on improving productivity, performance, and data quality. She has extensive experience in enterprise deployment of Power BI, both as an admin and Power BI architect, and as a trainer and technical community organizer. She is passionate about data governance, truth-telling in data, and creating collaborative environments across data practitioners and the numerous data stakeholders.

Leslie co-organizes Power BI DC and frequently attends and speaks at data community meetups in the DC metro area, including but not limited to Data Viz DC, Data Science DC, Women Who Code DC, Washington DC Power Platform User Group, and Generative AI DC. Leslie was recognized as a 2023 New Power Woman in Tech by DCA Live, and on the RealLIST Engineers 2024 as one of 15 technologists helping the DMV ecosystem grow.

Leslie Welch is the Principal Architect, Data & AI at SHI with over 18 years of experience in automation, data analysis and visualization, and strengthening organizations’ knowledge of data. Leslie is a Microsoft MVP and has worked end-to-end in the ... Show more

Shaun Lawrence

Shaun Lawrence

Shaun is an avid gamer, learner and experimenter, these combined with a profession in software development make for some really fun journeys. He gets more than excited when others find interest in what he does and has made it his mission to share his learnings and result of the experiments with anyone that will listen.

Father to two amazing children and many, many unfinished side projects.

Shaun is a Microsoft MVP, speaker and published author. Maintainer of the .NET MAUI Community Toolkit, Xamarin Community Toolkit, Orbit game engine.

Author of 'Introducing .NET MAUI' - https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/979-8-8688-1189-0

Shaun is an avid gamer, learner and experimenter, these combined with a profession in software development make for some really fun journeys. He gets more than excited when others find interest in what he does and has made it his mission to share his... Show more

Rob Richardson

Rob Richardson

Rob Richardson is a software craftsman building web properties in ASP.NET and Node, React and Vue. He’s a Microsoft MVP, published author, frequent speaker at conferences, user groups, and community events, and a diligent teacher and student of high quality software development. You can find this and other talks on https://robrich.org/presentations and follow him on Mastodon at @robrich@hachyderm.io.

Rob Richardson is a software craftsman building web properties in ASP.NET and Node, React and Vue. He’s a Microsoft MVP, published author, frequent speaker at conferences, user groups, and community events, and a diligent teacher and student of high ... Show more

Anders Green

Anders Green

I am an a Microsoft MVP and workplace architect who specializes in Intune and modern workplace solutions for medium to large enterprises. Passionate about learning and sharing knowledge, Speaks at conferences around the world, aiming to deliver sessions that inspire and encourage meaningful discussions. Outside of work, rocks out to the favorite bands and crushes functional fitness challenges—because who says IT pros can’t be hardcore in every sense?

I am an a Microsoft MVP and workplace architect who specializes in Intune and modern workplace solutions for medium to large enterprises. Passionate about learning and sharing knowledge, Speaks at conferences around the world, aiming to deliver sessi... Show more

Santhoshkumar Anandakrishnan

Santhoshkumar Anandakrishnan

IT professional with 19 years of dedicated experience in Cloud & Infrastructure with globally reputed organisations, backed up by a bachelor's degree in computer science engineering. I specialise in Infrastructure, mainly focusing on public & hybrid cloud, and I work extensively on designing and implementing cloud models that host Business solutions.

I hold a Dual MVP from Microsoft for Azure networking and Cloud Security.

IT professional with 19 years of dedicated experience in Cloud & Infrastructure with globally reputed organisations, backed up by a bachelor's degree in computer science engineering. I specialise in Infrastructure, mainly focusing on public & hybrid ... Show more

Pragati Jain

Pragati Jain

Pragati Jain is the Founder and Principal Consultant at Datavibe Solutions Ltd, where she leads end-to-end Microsoft Fabric implementations for global organizations. As a Microsoft Data Platform MVP and MCT, Pragati specializes in bridging the gap between intricate technical engineering and executive data strategy.

At Datavibe, she architects migrations from legacy Power BI environments to modern Fabric ecosystems, leveraging the full analytics stack- including Lakehouse, Data Engineering, and Real-Time Analytics. Her work is defined by a commitment to high-impact storytelling and technical excellence in PySpark, SQL, and advanced Fabric & Power BI development.

A recognized Superuser in the Microsoft Fabric Community, Pragati has spoken at over 80 global events, including the Microsoft Fabric Community Conference, PASS Data Summit, and SQLBits. Awarded the Sessionize Most Active Speaker badge four years running (2022–2025), she is a dedicated advocate for women in tech and mentors the next generation of data professionals.
Beyond data, Pragati is a trained Indian classical singer, painter, and hiking enthusiast.

📌 MVP Profile: https://mvp.microsoft.com/en-us/PublicProfile/5004163
🌐 Consulting: https://datavibe.co.uk

Pragati Jain is the Founder and Principal Consultant at Datavibe Solutions Ltd, where she leads end-to-end Microsoft Fabric implementations for global organizations. As a Microsoft Data Platform MVP and MCT, Pragati specializes in bridging the gap be... Show more

Joakim Nilsson

Joakim Nilsson

Joakim has a background in Mathematics and is working as Knowledge Graph Lead for Capgemini. He has experience running Knowledge Graph project both from the public and private sector - in Sweden and abroad.

Joakim has a background in Mathematics and is working as Knowledge Graph Lead for Capgemini. He has experience running Knowledge Graph project both from the public and private sector - in Sweden and abroad. Show more

Greg Strzyminski

Greg Strzyminski

Greg is a Business Intelligence Team Lead at Kearney Warsaw. He serves as a Power BI technical Lead for Kearney.

He has proved his lecturing and teaching skills by running Power BI community events as well as internal trainings at Kearney at all levels, ranging in audience size from 5 to 250. Greg has been leading a number of Power BI workshops aimed at experienced professionals, students as well people willing to explore the art of possible in Business Intelligence. He has experience at conveying his knowledge at various levels, ranging from beginner to expert.

Greg holds a number of Microsoft Certifications including those in Fabric: DP-600 and Power BI: PL-300, DA-100 and 70-778.

Greg is a Business Intelligence Team Lead at Kearney Warsaw. He serves as a Power BI technical Lead for Kearney. He has proved his lecturing and teaching skills by running Power BI community events as well as internal trainings at Kearney at all l... Show more

Viktor Gamov

Viktor Gamov

Viktor Gamov is a Principal Developer Advocate at Confluent, founded by the original creators of Apache Kafka®. With a rich background in implementing and advocating for distributed systems and cloud-native architectures, Viktor excels in open-source technologies. He is passionate about assisting architects, developers, and operators in crafting systems that are not only low in latency and scalable but also highly available.
As a Java Champion and an esteemed speaker, Viktor is known for his insightful presentations at top industry events like JavaOne, Devoxx, Kafka Summit, and QCon. His expertise spans distributed systems, real-time data streaming, JVM, and DevOps.
Viktor has co-authored "Enterprise Web Development" from O'Reilly and "Apache Kafka® in Action" from Manning. 
Follow Viktor on X—@gamussa to stay updated with his latest thoughts on technology, his gym and food adventures, and insights into open-source and developer advocacy.

Viktor Gamov is a Principal Developer Advocate at Confluent, founded by the original creators of Apache Kafka®. With a rich background in implementing and advocating for distributed systems and cloud-native architectures, Viktor excels in open-source... Show more

Ludovico Besana

Ludovico Besana

Ludovico, born as a Full Stack Developer, discovered his true passion for quality later in his career. With a background in Full Stack Development, he possessed a strong technical foundation and a deep understanding of software systems.
As an Automation and Open Source enthusiast, Ludovico recognized the power of efficient and reliable testing methodologies. He understood the importance of ensuring that software products met the highest standards of performance, functionality, and user experience. He works as a QA Lead.

Ludovico, born as a Full Stack Developer, discovered his true passion for quality later in his career. With a background in Full Stack Development, he possessed a strong technical foundation and a deep understanding of software systems. As an Automa... Show more

David Pless

David Pless

David Pless is a Principal Program Manager in Azure Data, based in CentralFlorida with over twenty years of experience in data technologies. David has been with Microsoft since 2006 and is currently responsible on Azure SQL Virtual Machines with a focus on sizing, performance, and storage. David has supported on SQL Server performance tuning and optimization, Azure Data technologies, Power BI and SQL Server Reporting Services, and High Availability solutions.

At Microsoft, David has worked as a Technology Specialist as well as a Premier Field Engineer in Customer Support Services.

Before Microsoft, David Pless was a MCS partner consultant and a Database Administrator in Atlanta, Georgia.

David is a Microsoft Certified Master (MCM) and has spoken a SQLSaturdays, SQLPASS, SQLintersection, Tech Ready, and regularly speaks at the local user groups in the Southeast.

David Pless is a Principal Program Manager in Azure Data, based in CentralFlorida with over twenty years of experience in data technologies. David has been with Microsoft since 2006 and is currently responsible on Azure SQL Virtual Machines with a fo... Show more

Alvin Ashcraft

Alvin Ashcraft

Alvin Ashcraft is a veteran developer, author, and community leader with over three decades of industry experience. As a Senior Content Developer at Microsoft, he helps developers build the next generation of intelligent apps using Microsoft Foundry. Previously, he managed the documentation for WinUI, the Windows App SDK, and Windows SDK.

Alvin is a dedicated community builder, serving as a founding organizer, Treasurer, and acting VP for the TechBash conference. He has authored definitive guides for developers, including Learn WinUI 3 and Parallel Programming and Concurrency with C# and .NET.

Alvin Ashcraft is a veteran developer, author, and community leader with over three decades of industry experience. As a Senior Content Developer at Microsoft, he helps developers build the next generation of intelligent apps using Microsoft Foundry.... Show more

Spencer Schneidenbach

Spencer Schneidenbach

Spencer Schneidenbach is an AI Architect, President, and CTO of Aviron Labs, an AI and software development firm based in the United States. He has been recognized as a Microsoft MVP for his AI expertise and contributions to the community. Visit our website at https://avironlabs.com for more information.

Spencer Schneidenbach is an AI Architect, President, and CTO of Aviron Labs, an AI and software development firm based in the United States. He has been recognized as a Microsoft MVP for his AI expertise and contributions to the community. Visit our ... Show more

Stephen Chin

Stephen Chin

Stephen Chin is VP of Developer Relations at Neo4j, conference chair of the LF AI & Data Foundation, and author of numerous titles including the upcoming GraphRAG: The Definitive Guide for O'Reilly. He has given keynotes and main stage talks at numerous conferences around the world including AI Engineer Summit, AI DevSummit, Devoxx, DevNexus, JNation, JavaOne, Shift, Joker, swampUP, and GIDS. Stephen is an avid motorcyclist who has done evangelism tours in Europe, Japan, and Brazil, interviewing developers in their natural habitat. When he is not traveling, he enjoys teaching kids how to do AI, embedded, and robot programming together with his daughters.

Stephen Chin is VP of Developer Relations at Neo4j, conference chair of the LF AI & Data Foundation, and author of numerous titles including the upcoming GraphRAG: The Definitive Guide for O'Reilly. He has given keynotes and main stage talks at numer... Show more

Arthur Doler

Arthur Doler

Arthur (or Art, take your pick) has been a software engineer for 22 years and has worked on things as exciting as analysis software for casinos and things as boring as banking websites. He is an advocate for talking openly about mental health and psychology in the technical world, and he spends a lot of time thinking about how we program and why we program, and about the tools, structures, cultures, and mental processes that help and hinder us from our ultimate goal of writing amazing things. His hair is brown and his thorax is a shiny blue color.

Arthur (or Art, take your pick) has been a software engineer for 22 years and has worked on things as exciting as analysis software for casinos and things as boring as banking websites. He is an advocate for talking openly about mental health and psy... Show more

Angeliki Patsiavou

Angeliki Patsiavou

I am a Microsoft Business Applications MVP and Prosci® certified, Dynamics 365 and Power Platform functional lead. My experience is in business applications, CRM operations and enterprise change. With a FTSE 100 client background in Financial Services, CRM and Marketing across Microsoft, Adobe, and Salesforce platforms, I manage global transformation and adoption programs with deep human impact. I am also a speaker in the Microsoft Community, advocating as a human evangelist about user-centered design and enabling governance.

I am a Microsoft Business Applications MVP and Prosci® certified, Dynamics 365 and Power Platform functional lead. My experience is in business applications, CRM operations and enterprise change. With a FTSE 100 client background in Financial Service... Show more

Sameer Mhaisekar

Sameer Mhaisekar

I'm the founder organizer of Experts Live India, organizing physical and online conferences. I also host a tech/semi tech podcast, Experts Live India podcast.

I'm a 3x Microsoft MVP and been awarded Azure content hero and Azure community hero badgers by Microsoft.

I'm active in the Copilot, Power Platform and Governance space.

I'm the founder organizer of Experts Live India, organizing physical and online conferences. I also host a tech/semi tech podcast, Experts Live India podcast. I'm a 3x Microsoft MVP and been awarded Azure content hero and Azure community hero badg... Show more

Jamel Abed

Jamel Abed

Jamel Abed is a Microsoft MVP in Microsoft 365 Development and SharePoint, Senior Developer Advocate, and International Speaker with over 17 years of experience in architecting, building, and migrating enterprise-scale solutions.

He has successfully delivered projects across multiple industries, including Banking, Finance, Energy, Insurance, Healthcare, Aerospace, Defense, and Government, leveraging the full power of Microsoft 365, SharePoint, Power Platform, Azure, and SharePoint Embedded.

As a Solutions Architect and Developer Advocate, Jamel is passionate about empowering developers, promoting clean code, and driving product adoption. He specializes in designing end-to-end solutions across the Microsoft ecosystem, transforming complex business requirements into secure, scalable, and efficient technology solutions.

Ranked #1 Global Speaker on CommunityDays.org, Jamel regularly speaks at international conferences on topics such as SharePoint Embedded, AI integration, and cost optimization for data management. He is also a community leader and mentor, dedicated to fostering innovation and collaboration within the global tech community.

Jamel Abed is a Microsoft MVP in Microsoft 365 Development and SharePoint, Senior Developer Advocate, and International Speaker with over 17 years of experience in architecting, building, and migrating enterprise-scale solutions. He has successful... Show more

Rodrigue Yengo

Rodrigue Yengo

I'm a passionate cloud architect specializing in Azure (DevOps, Identity, Integration, Storage, Serverless, Microservices), Office 365 (Exchange, SharePoint, Teams), Dynamics 365 CE and ERP, and Data Management. With over 15 years of experience, I design complex architectures, drive major projects, and support transformation initiatives. Enthusiastic about architecture, governance, Zero Trust security, and business processes, I love sharing knowledge and contributing to innovative solutions across international environments.

I'm a passionate cloud architect specializing in Azure (DevOps, Identity, Integration, Storage, Serverless, Microservices), Office 365 (Exchange, SharePoint, Teams), Dynamics 365 CE and ERP, and Data Management. With over 15 years of experience, I de... Show more

Scott Sauber

Scott Sauber

Scott is the Director of Engineering at Lean TECHniques Inc. Besides advising clients and delivering solutions for them, he enjoys helping teams realize their potential through technical practices (such as CI/CD, TDD, IAC, etc.) and working more effectively (such as limiting WIP, visualizing work, etc).

He’s a Microsoft MVP, Redgate Community Ambassador, international speaker, Dometrain author, and co-organizes the Iowa .NET User Group. You can find Scott on Twitter @scottsauber, on Bluesky @scottsauber.com, or on his blog at scottsauber.com.

Scott is the Director of Engineering at Lean TECHniques Inc. Besides advising clients and delivering solutions for them, he enjoys helping teams realize their potential through technical practices (such as CI/CD, TDD, IAC, etc.) and working more effe... Show more

Olivier Van Steenlandt

Olivier Van Steenlandt

Olivier Van Steenlandt is a Business Intelligence Professional who spent most of his early career assisting retail companies to get more value of their data using the Microsoft BI Stack (SSIS, SSAS, SSRS, Power BI).

As his first experience in the field (in Business Intelligence), Olivier worked as a Big Data Analyst using tools such as Hadoop and Spark.

In 2015 the focus changed to traditional data warehousing & reporting using SSIS, SSRS & MicroStrategy. A bit later, around June 2019, the opportunity arose to fill the position of BI Teamlead. In this function he was able to set up a hybrid BI Team (team members in Belgium and Belarus).

Early 2020, Olivier joined the dataMinds crew as a core member, assisting to organise several events.

Around April 2021, Olivier started a new position as BI Teamlead in another Retail Company to support business growth. Besides the challenge to help the BI Team grow and deliver projects on time, he started to use SSAS & Power BI.

In April 2025, Olivier stepped away from internal positions and became an independent consultant.

When Olivier is not working there is a high chance that you find him on a football field, studying (BI Related), playing music (Saxophone / Piano) or cooking.

Olivier Van Steenlandt is a Business Intelligence Professional who spent most of his early career assisting retail companies to get more value of their data using the Microsoft BI Stack (SSIS, SSAS, SSRS, Power BI). As his first experience in the ... Show more

Lara Newsom

Lara Newsom

In addition to the many conference talks I have given online and around the globe, I am an Angular GDE, NX Champion, and a co-host on the Angular Plus Show where we talk about all things Angular and Angular adjacent. During the day, I am a Senior Software Engineering Technical Leader at Cisco working full time on a large enterprise Angular application using NgRx state management and leveraging Nx Monorepos. I am always energized by sharing my knowledge and being part of the software engineering community. I specialize in talking about cats and random facts but also love talking about software.

In addition to the many conference talks I have given online and around the globe, I am an Angular GDE, NX Champion, and a co-host on the Angular Plus Show where we talk about all things Angular and Angular adjacent. During the day, I am a Senior Sof... Show more

Peter Zaitsev

Peter Zaitsev

Peter Zaitsev is an entrepreneur and co-founder of Percona, Coroot and other tech companies. As one of the leading experts in Open Source strategy and database optimization, Peter has applied his technical knowledge and entrepreneurial drive to contribute as a board member and advisor to several open source startups. Additionally, Peter is the co-author of the book "High Performance MySQL: Optimization, Backup and Replication," one of the most popular books on MySQL performance.

Peter Zaitsev is an entrepreneur and co-founder of Percona, Coroot and other tech companies. As one of the leading experts in Open Source strategy and database optimization, Peter has applied his technical knowledge and entrepreneurial drive to contr... Show more

Smita Nachan

Smita Nachan

As a M365 Architect, I leverage my 16+ years of experience and multiple certifications to design, implement, and maintain large-scale projects using SharePoint and Office 365. I am a Certified ScrumMaster (CSM), a Microsoft MVP in two categories (M365 and AI Platform).

My mission is to help clients achieve their business goals and optimize their digital transformation journey using the latest technologies and best practices. I am passionate about sharing my knowledge and expertise with the community, and I frequently speak at various events, such as SPS, Global Microsoft 365 Developer Bootcamp, and Global Power Platform Bootcamp. I am also an author, speaker, and organizer of several books, blogs, podcasts, and webinars on M365 topics.

As a M365 Architect, I leverage my 16+ years of experience and multiple certifications to design, implement, and maintain large-scale projects using SharePoint and Office 365. I am a Certified ScrumMaster (CSM), a Microsoft MVP in two categories (M36... Show more

Please note that Sessionize is not responsible for the accuracy or validity of the data provided by speakers.

Most Active Speakers 2025

Every year, we put together a list of the most active speakers. This list features the top 3% of speakers who have participated in events using Sessionize during the 2025.

The 3% is calculated from the pool of all speakers that have at least one accepted session in year 2025. We don't include inactive speakers or speakers that had no accepted sessions during the year. There are around 39,000 unique accepted speakers this year, the 3% is 1163. Not all of them have their speaker profiles set as public, and we respect that, so the list doesn't show all of them.

The calculation is based on the number of accepted events, that's the main criteria, but to get more refined results we also look at things like multiple sessions per event, sharing a session with a co-speaker and how big the event is. Number of submissions and declined sessions don't affect the list.

Please note that the count of events and sessions in this list does not represent the number of events and sessions from the year 2025. Instead, it shows the number of events and sessions featured on the speaker's public speaker profile; these numbers have nothing to do with the award itself.