Most Active Speakers 2024

Sessionize proudly presents the list of the most active speakers in the year 2024!

  • 1008 speakers
  • Auto-generated
Vlad Catrinescu

Vlad Catrinescu

Vlad is a Microsoft 365 and Power Platform expert specializing in empowering organizations to securely and effectively integrate AI-powered tools, such as Microsoft 365 Copilot and AI Agents, into their digital workplaces. An IT professional at heart, Vlad excels at preparing, securing, and governing modern environments, enabling IT administrators and business users to automate processes, enhance productivity, and drive digital transformation with confidence.

As a Microsoft Certified Trainer, author, and internationally recognized speaker, Vlad has trained millions of IT professionals globally through impactful workshops, engaging conference sessions, and accessible online resources. He has authored three books published by Apress and developed over 100 comprehensive courses on Pluralsight, covering Microsoft 365 administration, Microsoft 365 Copilot, Power Automate, and some of the most in-demand Microsoft certifications.

A Microsoft Most Valuable Professional (MVP) since 2013, Vlad regularly shares insights, best practices, and industry trends on his blog at VladTalksTech.com and YouTube channel at youtube.com/@VladTalksTech. Frequently featured as an expert contributor across leading industry platforms, Vlad has consistently been recognized among the "Top 25 SharePoint & Microsoft 365 Influencers," underscoring his significant impact within the global Microsoft community.

Vlad is a Microsoft 365 and Power Platform expert specializing in empowering organizations to securely and effectively integrate AI-powered tools, such as Microsoft 365 Copilot and AI Agents, into their digital workplaces. An IT professional at heart... Show more

Koen Verbeeck

Koen Verbeeck

Koen Verbeeck is a data professional working at AE. He helps organizations to get insight in their data and to improve their analytics solutions. Koen has over a decade of experience in developing data warehouses, models and reports using the Microsoft data platform. Since 2017 Koen is a Microsoft Data Platform MVP. He has a blog at http://www.sqlkover.com, writes articles for MSSQLTips.com and is a frequent speaker at Microsoft Data Platform events.

Koen Verbeeck is a data professional working at AE. He helps organizations to get insight in their data and to improve their analytics solutions. Koen has over a decade of experience in developing data warehouses, models and reports using the Microso... Show more

Alessandro Stefouli-Vozza

Alessandro Stefouli-Vozza

Community leader and CNCF ambassador, Alessandro has spent the last few years building cloud native infrastructures for Microsoft customers, animating the Dutch community, and training others to pass the CKx exams. He has passion for all things cloud native, he's been around open source for 25 years and recently moved to a new Developer Relations role. Twitter handle: @bongo

Community leader and CNCF ambassador, Alessandro has spent the last few years building cloud native infrastructures for Microsoft customers, animating the Dutch community, and training others to pass the CKx exams. He has passion for all things cloud... Show more

Surbhi Pokharna

Surbhi Pokharna

Surbhi is a data professional with over two decades of architectural/administration experience in the financial domain. Architecting the operationalization aspect in a client-facing role, delivering relational and advanced analytics solutions for large scale Operational and Data Warehouse implementations with focus on learning and innovation remained a constant part of her data journey. Currently she is leading enterprise scale cloud data migrations in SQL Server/Snowflake/Azure SQL/Managed Instance and involved with designing next generation Data Analytics solutions using Snowflake. Surbhi is board member of the New England SQL Server User Group, member of PASS, speaker in PAAS Summit/Snowflake User Group/Azure Data User Groups/Data Saturdays/SQLBits.

Surbhi is a data professional with over two decades of architectural/administration experience in the financial domain. Architecting the operationalization aspect in a client-facing role, delivering relational and advanced analytics solutions for lar... Show more

Just Blindbæk

Just Blindbæk

BI architect with extensive experience in all phases of BI development on Microsoft SQL Server, Azure, Fabric and Power BI. Founder and coordinator of Microsoft Business Intelligence Professionals Denmark (MsBIP.dk) and Power BI UG Denmark (PowerBI.dk). Is a Microsoft Certified Trainer.

BI architect with extensive experience in all phases of BI development on Microsoft SQL Server, Azure, Fabric and Power BI. Founder and coordinator of Microsoft Business Intelligence Professionals Denmark (MsBIP.dk) and Power BI UG Denmark (PowerBI.d... Show more

John Kjell

John Kjell

John is a Principal Consultant at ControlPlane, where he helps some of the world’s most security-conscious organizations build and assure mission-critical platforms. He is a maintainer of the Witness and Archivista sub-projects under in-toto and serves as a co-chair of the CNCF’s TAG Security. John is also actively involved in several initiatives within the OpenSSF. Prior to joining ControlPlane, he was the Director of Open Source at TestifySec and held engineering leadership roles at VMware.

John is a Principal Consultant at ControlPlane, where he helps some of the world’s most security-conscious organizations build and assure mission-critical platforms. He is a maintainer of the Witness and Archivista sub-projects under in-toto and serv... Show more

Alex Riviere

Alex Riviere

Alex Riviere is a Senior Front End Developer for Hygiena and a Co-Organizer for the Atlanta Vue.js Meetup.

Alex Riviere is a Senior Front End Developer for Hygiena and a Co-Organizer for the Atlanta Vue.js Meetup. Show more

Kevin Dubois

Kevin Dubois

Kevin Dubois is often featured as a (keynote) speaker at conferences around the world, where he shares his passion and knowledge about developer experience, open source, cloud native development and Java. He is also an author, java Champion, and an accomplished software architect and platform engineer. Kevin currently works as a Senior Principal Developer Advocate at IBM, and is also the Technical Lead for the CNCF Developer Experience Technical Advisory Group.

Kevin contributes to projects like Quarkus, LangChain4j, Knative, Apache Camel, and Podman (Desktop).

Multilingual and multicultural, Kevin speaks English, Dutch, French, and Italian fluently. Currently based in Switzerland, he has also lived in Belgium, Italy, Montana and Utah.
When he’s not coding or speaking at conferences, you’ll likely find Kevin exploring the great outdoors—whether he's hiking rugged trails, gravel biking through scenic routes, snowboarding down epic mountain slopes, or packrafting on untamed waters.

Kevin Dubois is often featured as a (keynote) speaker at conferences around the world, where he shares his passion and knowledge about developer experience, open source, cloud native development and Java. He is also an author, java Champion, and an a... Show more

Shawn Wildermuth

Shawn Wildermuth

Shawn Wildermuth has been tinkering with computers and software since he got a Vic-20 back in the early ‘80s. As a Microsoft MVP since 2003. He’s the author of over twenty Pluralsight courses, written eight books, has a popular YouTube channel, and is one of the Wilder Minds. You can reach him at his blog at http://wildermuth.com.

As a filmmaker, he creates documentaries including a feature-length, documentary about software developers today called “Hello World: The Film”. You can see more about it at http://twainfilms.com.

Shawn Wildermuth has been tinkering with computers and software since he got a Vic-20 back in the early ‘80s. As a Microsoft MVP since 2003. He’s the author of over twenty Pluralsight courses, written eight books, has a popular YouTube channel, and i... Show more

Liz Rice

Liz Rice

Liz Rice is Chief Open Source Officer at eBPF specialists Isovalent, creators of the Cilium project, and now part of Cisco. She is an award-winning speaker, and the author of O'Reilly books on "Container Security" and "Learning eBPF". She has held many roles with the CNCF, including as a governing board member, chair of the Technical Oversight Committee, and Co-Chair of KubeCon + CloudNativeCon. She was also previously on the board of OpenUK.

She has a wealth of software development, team, and product management experience from working on network protocols and distributed systems, and in digital technology sectors such as VOD, music, and VoIP. When not writing code, or talking about it, Liz loves riding bikes in places with better weather than her native London, competing in virtual races on Zwift, and making music under the pseudonym Insider Nine.

Liz Rice is Chief Open Source Officer at eBPF specialists Isovalent, creators of the Cilium project, and now part of Cisco. She is an award-winning speaker, and the author of O'Reilly books on "Container Security" and "Learning eBPF". She has held ma... Show more

Gregorio Palamà

Gregorio Palamà

I have been working in the IT industry for over 15 years. I currently hold the role of Senior Enterprise Architect in Adesso. I am a Google Developer Expert on GCP and a Google Cloud Innovator Champion on the topic of modern architecture. I manage GDG Pescara together with other developers, I love sharing my knowledge and trying to do it in a fun way.

I have been working in the IT industry for over 15 years. I currently hold the role of Senior Enterprise Architect in Adesso. I am a Google Developer Expert on GCP and a Google Cloud Innovator Champion on the topic of modern architecture. I manage GD... Show more

Andrea Ceroni

Andrea Ceroni

Senior software architect, R&D team @Elfo.
I started my career working for advertising and cinema companies, using Maya and Python.
I have been working in .NET C# for more than ten years, with special interest in Azure cloud architectures, Infrastructure as Code, mobile applications, async/concurrent code and functional programming.
I'm a proud Microsoft MVP and I do my best to support communities.
Mountains and MTB enthusiast!
Married with Federica, we have a golden retriever, Mila.

Senior software architect, R&D team @Elfo. I started my career working for advertising and cinema companies, using Maya and Python. I have been working in .NET C# for more than ten years, with special interest in Azure cloud architectures, Infrastr... Show more

Sander ten Brinke

Sander ten Brinke

Sander ten Brinke is a Microsoft MVP and Lead Software Engineer at Arcady, a Dutch IT consultancy firm based in Zwolle. He loves working with .NET, Azure, DevOps and a whole lot more. He always stays up to date with all new technology and loves sharing his knowledge with everyone by speaking, blogging, podcasting and more!

Sander is an accomplished speaker, he has spoken at 30+ events, including meetups and big conferences like WeAreDevelopers World Congress 2024 (15k attendees), NDC Oslo 2025, FutureTech and more! He was in the top 3% of the most active speakers on the Sessionize Platform in 2024!

Sander ten Brinke is a Microsoft MVP and Lead Software Engineer at Arcady, a Dutch IT consultancy firm based in Zwolle. He loves working with .NET, Azure, DevOps and a whole lot more. He always stays up to date with all new technology and loves shari... Show more

Håkan Silfvernagel

Håkan Silfvernagel

Håkan holds a Master of Science degree in Electrical Engineering and a Master’s degree in Leadership and Organizational behavior. He has also taken courses on university level in psychology, interaction design and human-computer interaction. He has 25 years’ experience of software development in various positions such as developer, tester, architect, project manager, scrum master, practice manager and team lead.

Håkan is Chairman of the Norwegian .NET User Group Oslo (NNUG) and is active as an Ambassador for Oslo AI, the local chapter for the global City.AI community. In addition, he is the co-founder of AI42, an online school for learning about AI and Data Science and the Azure User Group Sweden, a meetup focused on Azure.

Håkan is a Microsoft Most Valuable Professional (MVP) in AI, a Microsoft Certified Trainer (MCT) and a MCT Community Lead.

Currently Håkan is working as an AI Evangelist at Sopra Steria.

Håkan holds a Master of Science degree in Electrical Engineering and a Master’s degree in Leadership and Organizational behavior. He has also taken courses on university level in psychology, interaction design and human-computer interaction. He has 2... Show more

Nikos Delis

Nikos Delis

Microsoft Certified x6, MVP for Azure & IoT, Senior Cloud Architect and tech enthusiast. Passionate about software architecture and solution design.

During my 10+ years of hands-on experience in Software Engineering, I have primarily focused on .NET-based solutions and Azure as a cloud-services provider. I have worked with pretty much all kinds of applications, from small Windows Forms tools to large-scale enterprise web-based solutions. The more I code, the more I realize that my true passion is solution design and software architecture, regardless of tech-stack and platform.

Sharing knowledge and insights is the finest thing I know and the one thing I love the most in the IT community.

Microsoft Certified x6, MVP for Azure & IoT, Senior Cloud Architect and tech enthusiast. Passionate about software architecture and solution design. During my 10+ years of hands-on experience in Software Engineering, I have primarily focused on .N... Show more

Hasan Savran

Hasan Savran

Hasan is an expert in Azure data products and has been recognized as a Microsoft Data Platform MVP. He owns SavranWeb Consulting and holds the Senior Business Intelligence Manager position at Progressive Insurance. His work involves designing advanced business solutions using the latest web and database development technologies. Hasan is a seasoned professional with more than two decades of experience in software as a developer, architect, and manager. He is a global conference speaker and enjoys blogging about SQL Server, Azure Cosmos DB, C#, and front-end development.

Hasan is an expert in Azure data products and has been recognized as a Microsoft Data Platform MVP. He owns SavranWeb Consulting and holds the Senior Business Intelligence Manager position at Progressive Insurance. His work involves designing advance... Show more

Rodrigo Liberoff

Rodrigo Liberoff

Hi there… I'm Rodrigo, a Microsoft technologies veteran with more than 20+ years of experience.

In recent years, I have focused on Artificial Intelligence technologies, starting with Natural Language Processing (NPL) services such as Azure AI Language (previously known as Azure Cognitive Service for Language) and now with Generative AI (mainly Azure OpenAI), working on the potential and challenges (technical and ethical) of these new technologies and trying to help the community face them.

I also generate digital content to share my experience working with Artificial Intelligence services and resources, sharing tricks and strategies that anyone can follow, taking knowledge from the most basic levels to the most advanced. I publish my content through my YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/@CODERTECTURA), Twitch (https://www.twitch.tv/codertectura), LinkedIn and X social networks (formerly Twitter), my personal blog (www.codertectura.com), and other media such as the ENCAMINA blog (my current company), allowing me to reach more people through these channels.

I am a co-founder and main contributor of the open-source library ENMARCHA (https://github.com/Encamina/enmarcha), which showcases some of my experience and knowledge with Microsoft and Azure libraries for Artificial Intelligence. The idea is to help the community adopt these technologies and accelerate their own projects and initiatives.

If you want, we can connect at @rliberoff 😎

Hi there… I'm Rodrigo, a Microsoft technologies veteran with more than 20+ years of experience. In recent years, I have focused on Artificial Intelligence technologies, starting with Natural Language Processing (NPL) services such as Azure AI Lang... Show more

Sarath Sasidharan

Sarath Sasidharan

As a Senior Program Manager at Microsoft, I leverage my expertise in Fabric, Azure, and data architecture to help customers in the EMEA region overcome critical challenges and achieve their business goals. I have over 14 years of experience in designing, building, and monitoring data solutions that span integration, preparation, analytics, and reporting layers for various industries and domains.

I am passionate about enabling organizations to generate value from their data and empowering them with next-generation data and AI capabilities. I also contribute to the community by speaking at internal and external events and sharing insights and guidance on data strategy, governance, and architecture both within Microsoft Fabric and beyond.

Co-creator of Data Pancakes Channel, which talks about data management: https://www.youtube.com/@DataPancakes

As a Senior Program Manager at Microsoft, I leverage my expertise in Fabric, Azure, and data architecture to help customers in the EMEA region overcome critical challenges and achieve their business goals. I have over 14 years of experience in design... Show more

Anjuli Jhakry

Anjuli Jhakry

Meet Anjuli Jhakry: A Microsoft MVP and .NET developer at 4DotNet by day and a Microsoft Entra ID explorer by night. I'm navigating the vast ecosystem of Microsoft, always eager to learn. Beyond this, I am passionate about giving presentations and advocating for the incredible potential of tech to everyone.

Meet Anjuli Jhakry: A Microsoft MVP and .NET developer at 4DotNet by day and a Microsoft Entra ID explorer by night. I'm navigating the vast ecosystem of Microsoft, always eager to learn. Beyond this, I am passionate about giving presentations and ad... Show more

Philip Seamark

Philip Seamark

Phil Seamark works on the Microsoft Fabric CAT team and is an accomplished database and business intelligence (BI) professional. Phil has an in-depth knowledge of the Microsoft BI stack along with extensive knowledge of data warehouse (DW) methodologies and enterprise data modelling.

Phil has expert knowledge in all facets of BI/DW including planning architecture, project management, dimensional modelling, performance tuning, ETL design, development and optimisation, report and dashboard design as well as installation and administration.
Phil has written several books DAX and Data modelling and has also blogged extensively at dax.tips

Phil Seamark works on the Microsoft Fabric CAT team and is an accomplished database and business intelligence (BI) professional. Phil has an in-depth knowledge of the Microsoft BI stack along with extensive knowledge of data warehouse (DW) methodolog... Show more

Jonah Andersson

Jonah Andersson

Jonah Andersson is a Developer and Lead Cloud DevOps Engineer based in Sweden. She works as a Senior Azure Consultant at Solidify.

With a background in Computer Science and System Development, Jonah specializes in .NET technologies and excels in cloud development, particularly within Microsoft Azure.

Passionate about solving complex problems and crafting modern applications, Jonah succeeds in working with cloud platforms like Azure, and her expertise in cloud computing and development has earned her international recognition. She is recognized as a Microsoft Most Valuable Professional and Microsoft Certified Trainer for her contributions to the tech industry. Her book, 'Learning Microsoft Azure: Cloud Computing and Development Fundamentals (O'Reilly Media), further highlights her expertise and the depth of her technical knowledge.

She actively engages in tech communities and international events, fosters connections, and shares insights with fellow developers. Jonah's leadership extends beyond her technical expertise. As the founder and leader of the Azure User Group Sweden, where she leads, guide and inspire tech to others. She is also a MCT Community Lead from Sweden helping and supporting fellow Microsoft Certified Trainers in the community.

Her advocacy for gender equality and inclusion in tech, recognized by her Developer of the Year awards in two years at the Nordic Women in Tech Awards 2023 and Developers Day 2024, is a testament to her commitment to making the tech industry a more inclusive space. She actively mentors aspiring women in tech careers and co-hosts the Extend Women In Tech Podcast, to inspire inclusive tech for all.

Jonah Andersson is a Developer and Lead Cloud DevOps Engineer based in Sweden. She works as a Senior Azure Consultant at Solidify. With a background in Computer Science and System Development, Jonah specializes in .NET technologies and excels in ... Show more

Peter Eijgermans

Peter Eijgermans

Peter Eijgermans is a long-time software developer and an adventurous and passionate CodeSmith Frontend at Sopra Steria. He likes to travel around the world with his bike. Always seeking for the unexpected and unknown. For his job he tries out the latest techniques and frameworks. He loves to share his experience by speaking at conferences all over the World and writing for the Dutch Java magazine, Medium and DZone. He believes that you as the front-end developer are the spider in the web to bring the user, the team and the product together.

Peter Eijgermans is a long-time software developer and an adventurous and passionate CodeSmith Frontend at Sopra Steria. He likes to travel around the world with his bike. Always seeking for the unexpected and unknown. For his job he tries out the la... Show more

Tatu Seppälä

Tatu Seppälä

Tech explorer & lifetime learner. Deep experience in consultancy, advisory and architectural roles in the Microsoft cloud tech space. Special focus areas include (but are not limited to) insider risk, compliance and data security.

Tech explorer & lifetime learner. Deep experience in consultancy, advisory and architectural roles in the Microsoft cloud tech space. Special focus areas include (but are not limited to) insider risk, compliance and data security. Show more

Sasha Denisov

Sasha Denisov

Sasha is a software developer with over 20 years in multiple technologies and domains. A tech lead, architect, and mobile solutions expert, he specializes in AI integrations for mobile apps, focusing on on-device AI. He excels in Flutter, Firebase, and generative AI for robust, scalable apps. Sasha is Chief Software Engineer and Head of Flutter Discipline at EPAM, GDE for AI, Firebase, Flutter, Dart, and co-organizes Flutter Berlin Community

Sasha is a software developer with over 20 years in multiple technologies and domains. A tech lead, architect, and mobile solutions expert, he specializes in AI integrations for mobile apps, focusing on on-device AI. He excels in Flutter, Firebase, a... Show more

Andres Almiray

Andres Almiray

Andres is a Java/Groovy developer and a Java Champion Alumni, Developer Advocate for the Database Group At Oracle, with more than 2 decades of experience in software design and development. He has been involved in web and desktop application development since the early days of Java. Andres is a true believer in open source and has participated on popular projects like Groovy, Griffon, and DbUnit, as well as starting his own projects. Founding member of the Griffon framework and Hackergarten community event. Author of JReleaser.

Andres is a Java/Groovy developer and a Java Champion Alumni, Developer Advocate for the Database Group At Oracle, with more than 2 decades of experience in software design and development. He has been involved in web and desktop application developm... Show more

Tonie Huizer

Tonie Huizer

My name is Tonie, with 20+ years of experience in IT I like to read, experiment, talk and write about software.
The fun I experience in my job is the combination of people and technology.
To be honest I'm not the greatest DBA, Developer or SysAdmin, but I like to follow up and combine a lot of the things those people do.

in 2021 I started to write small stories on Medium, because talking about software is one thing...
In my stories I explain Azure, SQL and other Microsoft technologies with (if possible) one central topic Whisky!

My name is Tonie, with 20+ years of experience in IT I like to read, experiment, talk and write about software. The fun I experience in my job is the combination of people and technology. To be honest I'm not the greatest DBA, Developer or SysAdmin... Show more

Niels Tanis

Niels Tanis

Niels Tanis has got a background in .NET development, pentesting and security consultancy. He is Microsoft MVP and has been involved in breaking, defending and building secure applications. He joined Veracode in 2015 and right now he works as a security researcher on a variant of languages and technologies related to Veracode’s Binary Static Analysis service. He is married, father of two and lives in a small village just outside Amersfoort, The Netherlands.

Niels Tanis has got a background in .NET development, pentesting and security consultancy. He is Microsoft MVP and has been involved in breaking, defending and building secure applications. He joined Veracode in 2015 and right now he works as a secur... Show more

Michelle Sandford

Michelle Sandford

I live at the heart of the coding community and help drive awareness and engagement as a developer advocate and technology evangelist. I present at around 50 Conferences and Events around the world each year on AI, Azure, GitHub, Open Source, GameDev and LinkedIn (Including NDC Oslo, London, Copenhagen, Porto, Melbourne; Techorama BE & NL; DDDPerth; GCAP; Google Dev Fest, MS TechReady, MS GeekReady, MS Ignite etc). I judge hackathons and encourage the next generation into technology careers. In 2023 I became the host of the Microsoft ANZ web show - New Breakpoint, which is a show for developers by developers. I am also a co-organiser for the Rust Perth Community Group. I was the #1 Microsoft Social Seller (highest engagement) on LinkedIn for several years and remain #1 SSI rank in team, top 1% in industry and top 1% in network. I run the Microsoft Student Accelerator Program for ANZ encouraging emerging developers to build on Azure.

I live at the heart of the coding community and help drive awareness and engagement as a developer advocate and technology evangelist. I present at around 50 Conferences and Events around the world each year on AI, Azure, GitHub, Open Source, GameDev... Show more

Sally Dabbah

Sally Dabbah

Meet Sally! Sally serves as a Data Engineer with an expertise in Azure Cloud Analytics Services, with years of experience under her belt.
Since earning her M.Sc. degree in Software Engineering, Sally has become a significant voice in Azure Cloud Analytics Services, publishing over ten blogs on Microsoft's Tech Community blog. What excites Sally most about her work is the opportunity to build Proof of Concepts (POCs) that help Microsoft customers unlock their business potential – by doing so, she remains true to her ultimate mission: to empower innovation through Azure's boundless possibilities. Away from her professional endeavors, Sally finds joy in baking pastries, a hobby she shares with her followers on Instagram for inspiration.

Meet Sally! Sally serves as a Data Engineer with an expertise in Azure Cloud Analytics Services, with years of experience under her belt. Since earning her M.Sc. degree in Software Engineering, Sally has become a significant voice in Azure Cloud An... Show more

Mabrouk Mahdhi

Mabrouk Mahdhi

Mabrouk is a software engineer, Microsoft MVP, and founder of CodeCampsis, a consulting firm specializing in cutting-edge IT solutions and .NET technologies.

Mabrouk is a software engineer, Microsoft MVP, and founder of CodeCampsis, a consulting firm specializing in cutting-edge IT solutions and .NET technologies. Show more

Please note that Sessionize is not responsible for the accuracy or validity of the data provided by speakers.

Most Active Speakers 2024

Every year, we put together a list of the most active speakers. This list features the top 3% of speakers who have participated in events using Sessionize during the 2024.

The 3% is calculated from the pool of all speakers that have at least one accepted session in year 2024. We don't include inactive speakers or speakers that had no accepted sessions during the year. There are around 38,000 unique accepted speakers this year, the 3% is 1036. Not all of them have their speaker profiles set as public, and we respect that, so the list doesn't show all of them.

The calculation is based on the number of accepted events, that's the main criteria, but to get more refined results we also look at things like multiple sessions per event, sharing a session with a co-speaker and how big the event is. Number of submissions and declined sessions don't affect the list.

Please note that the count of events and sessions in this list does not represent the number of events and sessions from the year 2024. Instead, it shows the number of events and sessions featured on the speaker's public speaker profile; these numbers have nothing to do with the award itself.